Adopt AI or Take a Compensation Cut

Chris Grimes: 00:00:00

Two weeks ago, Ruben and I were in a room in Dallas

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listening to a panel all about AI.

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Great people, smart panel.

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It was all about what AI is going to do

for loan officers, but I don't think there

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was a single loan officer on that stage,

and that's most of the industry right now.

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The people whose the technology

is supposed to actually change

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are subject to the conversation

and not really part of it.

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Reuven: All right, all right, welcome.

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How's it going?

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Abdel Khawatmi: Good, man.

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Can't complain.

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you know, whenever this drops, but it's

end of, end of month, close to, right?

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And then end of summer.

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So a lot going on both,

personally and professionally.

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So, thank God

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Reuven: So Abdel, well,

great, great to have you.

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And, and just, just a backstory, we, we

met briefly at the HousingWire AI Summit,

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I think about a couple weeks ago now.

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That was, in, in Dallas.

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And, you…

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I thought you did a really phenomenal,

a, a really phen- phenomenal

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job on stage, sharing some of

your background and experience.

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And what, you know, what particularly

what I caught from that, which I'd

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love for us to cover today is, is

you, you really packaged, your insight

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and advice in a very tactical way.

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Whereas I think, you know, Chris and

I have had numerous discussions and

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debriefs about the conference, and

great conference, amazing people.

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it, it's, it…

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We're, we're finding is a lot of folks

want to go a little bit more tactical.

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What, what do I do on Monday?

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And you seem, you know, you seem

to have, have, have got it and, and

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you run your business accordingly.

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But before we, before we dive

in, I'd love to hear your story.

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I saw some super interesting posts

that you did over the weekend, you

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know, talking to your 20-year-old self.

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what's…

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what, what brings you here?

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You've had a very interesting,

up- upbringing and a very

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interesting career path to, mortgage

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Abdel Khawatmi: Yeah, you know, I

had to jump on the bandwagon, right?

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I s- I kept seeing it constantly

where, like, if you talk to

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yourself this time and that time.

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so I had, I had to kind of…

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And I'm usually so late to the show

when it comes to that stuff, you know,

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because we're mortgage guys, right?

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And gals.

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So all we do is do mortgages, and I'm

pretty, pretty good at putting content

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out, but I can't keep up with the trend.

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Like, I'm putting out content because

we're actually doing this and I'm sharing

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insights and wisdom and, you know, getting

punched in the face on deals, because

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that's just, just what we deal with.

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but I did it and it's fun, man.

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It's, you know, it's, it's, it's crazy.

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I've been, I've been blessed.

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You know, I'm about to be with my wife for

18 years, which is literally half my life.

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I'm 36.

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and it was funny because, all right,

how do I start, you know, grab, grab

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a blank canvas and start writing?

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And you're like, yeah, I remember I

left my house because I was like most

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of us, a stubborn kid who thought you

were on top of the world and you knew

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everything and you had life figured out.

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And, you know, boy, boy was I wrong.

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but I think it allowed us the opportunity

to, you know, take, take that leap of

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faith, which we did you know, driving

around in a Chevy Malibu thinking I

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was the coolest thing in the world

with a hat turned to the side, right?

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but, you know, and I think it really

helps though kind of paint the canvas

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to how we've been really taking things

by, you know, the bull by the horns

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and then just being like, "Hey, this

is something that I think I wanna

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do, and I'm confidently gonna do."

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Little background, you know,

my parents are both Syrian.

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so, you know, culturally you

marry within your culture.

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I did not do that, right?

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I married a Hispanic, you know, Latina

who I met freshman year of college.

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So I kinda was always the person,

I was like, "I'm gonna do what I

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wanna do, and if you're not okay with

that, all good, no worries, right?

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There's 16 doors that you could

pick to get out of my life."

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and it's funny because I think,

it's allowed us the opportunity to

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kind-- You know, I've been doing

this for eight years now, entering

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now just past the eight year.

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Same company, right?

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PRMG, been good to me, so that,

as you know, speaks volumes to

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what they got going on and me also

understanding that the grass is

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not greener anywhere else, right?

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but AI's been something that we've been

truly adopting, I would say religiously

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or within the last two years, right?

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Anybody who says before, unless you're

a tech company or like you guys, right?

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But anybody who says they're like truly

actually implementing it and doing it

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and replacing roles and actually seeing

success to it, you know, the digital

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age now of social media and, you know,

websites and stuff, all you see now is

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about artificial intelligence, right?

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And I think that, that became

a point where I'm like, "All

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right, I saw it once, twice.

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What is this like third party

that is in my Zoom link, right?

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What is this robot doing in there?"

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And then you get a recording.

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I'm like, "Oh, that's cool."

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and I'm a big like post-follow-up, you

know, y- like you said earlier, I'm

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extremely regimented in my approach.

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So I had like a time block, 7, 7 PM to

make sure I respond back to every person

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that I had a meeting with during the day.

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And then I'm like, okay, well now there's

a touch point that's there after the

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meeting, and instead of me remembering

after I've dealt with 17 fires in between

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the last meeting and, you know, the end

of the day, I can actually revert back to

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this call recording, grab it, either read

it myself and digest it and remember that

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they talked about liking the Cowboys and

me busting their chops about it 'cause

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I'm a diehard Giants fan, and then getting

into the meats and potatoes of what it is.

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Or I could also build out A little,

chat was obviously the start, right?

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Building a chat project that I would

just drop the summary in there and tell

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it, you know, audience is real estate

agent, and then it would articulate it in

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my tone, my fashion, max two paragraphs

long, where it doesn't look like it

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was generated by a robot, but it came

like me, talked like me, said dude,

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said copy, said LFG, all that stuff.

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and then I started really kind of putting

a little bit of the pieces to the puzzle.

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but yeah, that's a little

bit of a background on kinda

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how I fell into this, right?

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On AI, on our business face first, and you

know, we've been cranking away ever since.

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Reuven: That's awesome, Abdel.

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So what, a lot of, a lot of people

that are, you know, talking about

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AI are not practitioners, right?

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And, and what I love about you

is you're on the ground level.

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You just mentioned before

you, before we started, you're

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attending open houses, you've got

deals on the go, you're cooking.

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You're, you're, you're the

guy in the kitchen, right?

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At which point does the light

bulb go off for you, you know,

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having practiced for 18 years?

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What, what's…

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At which point does the light bulb go off

and say like, "There's something here"?

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And what, how do you find that in,

to be your starting point, in, in at

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least trying experimenting with AI?

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Abdel Khawatmi: Yeah.

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So the, you know, Zeb had

asked on stage, right?

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That aha moment.

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it, it, it truly was for me, it's

all operational efficiencies, right?

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So my background, I was

originally going to law school,

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so I was extremely analytical.

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you know, we're Jersey guys, so we're

like, you know, "Give me, give me the

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ball and get out of the way," right?

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like we're, we're gonna push it

to, to, to the closing table.

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and we took that approach, but I think

it was like I said, it really was like

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the AI note taker, then it was like

my calendar, and then it was like,

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"Hey, I wanna look for, potential real

estate agents in a particular market."

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And I always got stuck there, so then we

partnered up with like Model Match, right?

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Who gave me now the MCP connections.

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Now I don't have to go to

their website to log in.

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I could search from there, right?

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And actually search people.

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But you know, I stopped doing

open houses for almost like…

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It's sad to admit, but almost

like five years, right?

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probably like two thousand and

nineteen to like twenty twenty-five.

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one, being busy Two, because

my wife's telling me to go,

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you know, screw myself, right?

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'Cause I'm never home.

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but then I also started-- When I

started embracing a lot of the AI

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stuff and having a lot of the stuff on

automation, I had mentioned on stage

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we've never been more on the phone.

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But I've also never been like tighter

with my referral partners, right?

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So like I just went and

got my, CDLP license.

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the certification that's

for like divorces and stuff.

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We've got a pretty big niche.

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Really every-everybody can't stand

anybody, so they're getting divorced.

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but I'm like, "Okay," I went on a cruise.

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This is as recent as last Tuesday.

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Went on, went on like a little cruise

ship thing for like two, three hours,

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and it was with the NADP group.

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And I was like, "Hold on.

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I'm competing against these people?

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I'm leaving a huge source of business.

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I'm gonna go and get my cert

the next day, signed up."

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Took the course the following

day, passed the exam on Friday.

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So this past weekend, all I've

been doing is coding and vibe

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coding websites on Lovable.

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So now ba-basically build out a alliance

of professionals, and we're gonna build

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out all the different metrics and the

resources and make AI crawl it and get

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the schema going and SEO, AEO, GEO, and

then bring on these referral partners

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and say, "Hey, dude, by the way, we've

built out this cool little alliance.

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Would it be something of value for

you that we can kind of bring you into

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that infrastructure and meet maybe

once a month on Zoom or come into my

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couple offices in Jersey and collab?"

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where my head's at, right?

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So i-i-i-- and that's kind of where

I'm like, okay, you're getting

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the personal gorilla, right?

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So the first always be yourself

unless you can be a gorilla.

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so they got the authenticity, which

I think people are trying to kinda

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unintentionally replace it, right?

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Versus me, I'm like, no, your, your

client's gonna get the response.

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We're gonna use Zapier.

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Like, I jumped on a call with Dave

Savage, we talked about, like, my

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workflow within Mortgage Coach.

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I also do it because I don't wanna waste

my time, your time, realtor's time, where

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you're putting an offer on a home and

the monthly payment is higher, right?

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we should never have that situation.

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we need to optimize our time,

optimize our efficiencies.

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If we're gonna put an offer out, I'm gonna

call the listing agent, I'm gonna tell

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them, "Hey, this is what we're doing, this

is where we're at," so on and so forth.

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And if I could use tech to be a little bit

of that, you know, assistance in between,

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but allow me the opportunity to also take

that visual, take that tech piece that we

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put in front of you and explain it, I'm

gonna have that much more success, and

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that's, that's what we've been seeing.

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Reuven: That's awesome.

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Del, quick…

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Chris: really cool stuff there.

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I was just gonna say, like, a-a-and

just thinking about how you sounded

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in, in that last, sort of two minutes

you kinda described e-even just taking

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the course and going through all this.

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So tomorrow morning, it's Tuesday,

you wake up, like, like hour by

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hour, what does your day look like?

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Like, and how much has, I guess, AI

allowed or, or technology allowed to

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do all these other things, building

these websites and everything

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else you're just talking about?

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Abdel Khawatmi: You know, e- it used

to be 6:00, then it's 5:00, then fi-

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five, you know, 4:30, then it's 4:00.

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The a- the clock keeps going backwards.

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but wake up, wake up early, hit the gym.

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I'm a very, very big believer

in, you know, keeping in touch

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with your fitness and stuff.

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my wife is, competing for, I

call it the Hyrox midlife crisis.

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No shots to you guys, Hyrox, right?

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It's cool, but it's funny.

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It's like people who are in

their 30s and 40s, our age.

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so she, she, signed up for a place

by us called Alpha Fit, Club, which

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is like a, CrossFit style, whatever.

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So she goes there, and I go to just a

typical Crunch 'cause it's everywhere.

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workout, hit there.

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Z- like right when I wake up at

3:59, AI chat sends me what I

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have going on for the day, right?

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Now, I already know, generally before

I go to sleep, I know what I have going

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on, but there's that quick reminder.

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And then we utilize, Buffer also

automatically schedule posts on LinkedIn

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and our Google My Business profile, right?

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So then there's, you know, AI will catch

the t- and it's only text-based too.

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So AI will catch the text, and then we

usually will drop like a YouTube, link,

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basically pushing you to that, and then

hopefully they click it, and then AI

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will give us credit for pushing it to

YouTube, and they're getting crawled back

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Chris: I, I did notice actually,

and, and maybe this was, I don't

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know if Ruben, if you got this, but

I got a n- a notification back from

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you, which I thought was really cool

because we're the ones who invited

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you, you know, to the event, and then

we actually got a notification back.

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I, I thought that was a cool use

of, whatever tool you were using

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Abdel Khawatmi: so we

use w-- I use, Zapier.

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So, so Zapier sets it up with the

automatic reminder once you have a

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meeting, whether I've scheduled it or,

to your point, you've scheduled it.

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It's just, "Hey, it's a quick reminder."

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And it's-- Dude, it's saved us so

much time and energy because, you

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know, our, our schedules are tight.

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So, so if I'm gonna meet with you,

and then I think it goes out, I forget

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the cadency, but I think I structured

it where it's, like, either a week

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out, which I don't think we scheduled

that far out, but a week out, 24 hours

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out, and then I believe right before.

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Or normally, my team would call you

if it's, like, a client consultation

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the morning of saying, "Hey, just

a heads-up, just a reminder, you've

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got a call with Abdel at 2:00 p.m."

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Right?

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but again, it's, it's

the extra touch point,

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Reuven: Yeah

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Abdel Khawatmi: Rather than, like--

Chris, I don't know if you have kids, but

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maybe your little one got sick or maybe

your wife all of a sudden said, "Hey,

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did you forget that I gotta go here?"

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And you're like, now I gotta cancel."

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So it kinda creates that little,

like, reminder at the same time, but

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it's also meant to optimize our time.

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And then people, again, it allows

you to stand out from the mix of

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generally what other people are doing.

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And I did that, like, three years

ago, even before AI, just because it

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was, like, connected to my calendar.

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And I use it too because I've got a

phenomenal team of admins, so they're

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also, like, connected to my calendar, and

then they're also getting reminders at the

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same time, so they could simultaneously

remember to also call that consumer, that

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referral partner, just a reminder, "Hey,

just wanna remind you that you've got a

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call coming up with Abdel or John Doe,

loan officer, Mary Smith, loan officer."

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that client's gonna be like,

"Oh, who am I meeting with?"

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Right?

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So, you know, you kinda give that little

bit of a synergy where before you've

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even met, you're like, "Okay, this

is different than maybe when I bought

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my first property 10 years ago, and I

had to chase after my loan officer,"

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Reuven: a lot of folks when,

you know, when, when we hear

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AI, we assume automation, right?

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So, you know, and you brought

up the topic of efficiency.

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Obviously, you know, all of us

wanna be efficient, and you, you

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put it up to a vote in a room

and everybody puts up their hand.

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You know, if you want 10%, 20%,

50%, you want your time back.

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what's fascinating to, to me is that

you've really figured out that it's not

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just an efficiency play, but it's more

of an augmentation or a force multiplier.

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It sounds like, you know, th- there's

stuff that you're really already

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good at, which is, you know, sounds

like interacting with clients, pro-

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problem-solving, all that stuff.

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H- how did you…

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How do you think about using AI to

augment versus, you know, those that are

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still, a bit in, in fear to say like,

"I, I really don't wanna automate my

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business because I've got, you know,

me, I'm, I'm the, I'm the secret sauce

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or I'm the special sauce here," right?

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: 00:14:05

Abdel Khawatmi: Yeah, it's

the art of delegation, right?

292

: 00:14:07

So, s- you gotta, you gotta delegate

your tasks, your mundane tasks.

293

: 00:14:10

So if you're someone who's listening

and you didn't listen to the last

294

: 00:14:14

minutes, first thing that I mentioned

is grab your calendar, write down

295

: 00:14:17

what you do on a daily basis.

296

: 00:14:19

What tasks can you automate?

297

: 00:14:21

What tasks can you not?

298

: 00:14:22

And then from there, the

stuff that you can automate,

299

: 00:14:24

right, the 80/20 Plato's rule.

300

: 00:14:25

The stuff that you can

automate, can it be done with…

301

: 00:14:29

Does it need a human intervention?

302

: 00:14:31

If it is, then that's when you

delegate it to an LOA, a processor,

303

: 00:14:35

or a virtual assistant, right?

304

: 00:14:36

Like income calculation, right?

305

: 00:14:38

I know you guys have got a phenomenal

platform that essentially handles

306

: 00:14:41

a lot of that stuff, right?

307

: 00:14:42

The income calculation, it does a

processing workflow, which is gonna

308

: 00:14:45

help me save, you know, an $80,000

salary, $90,000 salaries from having

309

: 00:14:50

a processor and stuff like that.

310

: 00:14:52

we're not as cool as that, but we've done

like, kinda like the traditional avenue

311

: 00:14:56

of just having a, you know, a custom GPT

that's loaded with, consumer, guidelines.

312

: 00:15:01

So FHA handbook, Fannie handbook, or

Fannie selling guide, Freddie Mac,

313

: 00:15:06

and then general questions that loan

officers may have that they're gonna

314

: 00:15:09

boggle down a potential processor,

operations manager, sales manager.

315

: 00:15:13

Go to askontmortgages.com.

316

: 00:15:15

We bought the domain, so it

automatically reroutes to the

317

: 00:15:19

custom GPT, and you're gonna get

whatever questions you want answered.

318

: 00:15:23

Now, the really cool part is when you

get the buy-in and get your referral

319

: 00:15:26

partners to also now go there too.

320

: 00:15:29

now the referral partners, instead of

them maybe saying, "This is a stupid

321

: 00:15:33

question, I don't wanna ask it, though."

322

: 00:15:34

And we all know there's no

stupid questions, yada, yada.

323

: 00:15:37

Yes, the…

324

: 00:15:37

People, people don't wanna

ask the questions 'cause they

325

: 00:15:40

might feel like whatever.

326

: 00:15:41

But I also don't want you to go to

Say Google, because you're not gonna

327

: 00:15:46

get a response, frankly, from Google.

328

: 00:15:47

You're gonna get a response from an AI

agent of Gemini, 'cause now that comes

329

: 00:15:50

up first before pay per click and LSA,

which is eating away from their margin.

330

: 00:15:55

but now it's gonna give you the

opportunity to know where to go, right?

331

: 00:15:58

So I've noticed what are the common

questions that I constantly get asked,

332

: 00:16:02

whether it's from a loan officer,

whether it's from a referral partner,

333

: 00:16:04

or whatever the case may be, and

what can I build out to augment that

334

: 00:16:08

relationship, right, and get the answers

going and then take it from there.

335

: 00:16:12

So that was a big part.

336

: 00:16:13

We're very, very big on branding.

337

: 00:16:15

Like you saw, I purposely, obnoxiously

will not wear a suit, I will always

338

: 00:16:20

wear a cool little gorilla T-shirt

that I will make 'cause my wife's got

339

: 00:16:24

a little Cricut or that we will order,

you know, with the, with the press.

340

: 00:16:28

But it's meant to purposely help you stand

341

: 00:16:31

Reuven: Yeah

342

: 00:16:32

Abdel Khawatmi: Meant to be like…

343

: 00:16:33

Especially, especially when I'm, when

I'm doing, you know, these large,

344

: 00:16:35

these large shows 'cause they're

like, "Who's this fucking guy?"

345

: 00:16:37

And then it just creates the

attention piece into like, okay,

346

: 00:16:41

this person's actually eat, sleep,

breathing what he's talking about.

347

: 00:16:45

There wasn't a, call it pay to play model

to be on stage or w- there wasn't a pay to

348

: 00:16:49

play to show up at a real estate agent's

event or host a chamber of commerce event.

349

: 00:16:53

so, so we built out something

called like GOT branding.

350

: 00:16:55

Again, GOT Mortgages, GOT branding, GOT

Homes that stuck with the, with the brand.

351

: 00:16:59

So this is essentially, also a custom

AI agent that helps our referral

352

: 00:17:03

partners basically, crawl their entire

website presence online with their

353

: 00:17:08

Google My Business profile, Facebook,

Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, and then

354

: 00:17:12

it will essentially tell them what

they're doing really, really well.

355

: 00:17:15

It will grade them out of like

a score of 100, and then it will

356

: 00:17:18

essentially tell them, "Hey, these

are the avenues that you're a stud at.

357

: 00:17:22

This is where you're

doing really, really well.

358

: 00:17:23

These are the avenues where

there's a little bit of weaknesses.

359

: 00:17:26

Here are the action steps."

360

: 00:17:27

So it's always day seven,

and then a 30, 60, 90.

361

: 00:17:31

The next seven days, I want you to do

one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

362

: 00:17:34

And then, in 30, here's a KPI

tracker that is going to tell you

363

: 00:17:39

this is what you need to track.

364

: 00:17:40

And the great part about,

say, social media in itself is

365

: 00:17:43

it's already built in, right?

366

: 00:17:44

If you've got a professional

account, you're gonna know

367

: 00:17:46

your professional insights.

368

: 00:17:47

What's gaining more views,

what's gaining more photos.

369

: 00:17:51

I can't figure out Facebook because it's,

it's like one day I get a lot of views

370

: 00:17:55

on my photos, one day I get a lot of

views on my reels, one day I get a lot…

371

: 00:17:59

So I'm just gonna post and then,

and then post and post and post.

372

: 00:18:02

Track it, make sure what works,

tag a bunch of people, collaborate

373

: 00:18:05

with a bunch of colleagues.

374

: 00:18:06

So to your point, Rev, I think that's

kind of where we've figured out like

375

: 00:18:10

the mundane tasks that I'm doing

constantly, how do I automate it?

376

: 00:18:14

Yes, I can come up with a really cool

prompt and save it in a Google Doc or

377

: 00:18:18

save it in my email template, or I could

build out whatever custom AI agent that I

378

: 00:18:23

know is repetitive tasks being done, and

then just kind of run with it from there.

379

: 00:18:27

Chris: One question on that, 'cause

I know like we've-- Ruben and I have

380

: 00:18:30

talked about this a lot too, is, you

know, you do all this AI work, and

381

: 00:18:34

then you have these regulators step in.

382

: 00:18:37

And have you come across any issues or,

or anything even on the branding side?

383

: 00:18:41

You know, you're, you're talking

about being out there, you

384

: 00:18:43

know, with the gorilla and, and

everything else around that.

385

: 00:18:47

You know, I know you're

based in New Jersey.

386

: 00:18:49

I think when we met, you talked

about, you know, you, you, you

387

: 00:18:51

work across multiple states.

388

: 00:18:53

Has, has any of the, the compliance

surfaced up, in your world?

389

: 00:18:58

Abdel Khawatmi: No, I mean, so, so

I've got my master's in risk and

390

: 00:19:02

compliance, from Montclair State.

391

: 00:19:03

So I'm certainly always cautious

on what to do, what to say.

392

: 00:19:08

Like I mentioned it on, on stage, right?

393

: 00:19:11

You gotta kinda, as a leader, right,

leading multiple branches and leading

394

: 00:19:14

multiple loan officers, I have to kinda

take the lead of getting my LOs trained on

395

: 00:19:20

stuff and like, "Trust me, dude, this is

the platform that you wanna use," whether

396

: 00:19:24

it's the custom GPT or whether it's, We

just came up with something for them a

397

: 00:19:27

couple weeks ago called LO Launchpad.

398

: 00:19:30

So this is where when a new loan

officer or current loan officer is

399

: 00:19:33

here, 'cause we have so much going

on, everything that we're building

400

: 00:19:36

out is going to be basically in

your own little domain, right?

401

: 00:19:40

That you just go to this website and it's

gonna give you everything on scripts.

402

: 00:19:44

So we have an AI role play agent

with Fuel, with Alex, and his team.

403

: 00:19:49

I don't know if you guys know Fuel.

404

: 00:19:50

Fuel, they, they were at a momentum

builder, but they got like a cool little

405

: 00:19:54

AI role play that you can go where

it's literally my voice and you could

406

: 00:19:58

role play with me back and forth on

coaching, training, stuff like that.

407

: 00:20:02

so it's there.

408

: 00:20:03

But it-- the hard part where I've noticed

too is because we're always not just

409

: 00:20:08

playing around with a bunch of stuff,

but actually implementing a lot of this

410

: 00:20:11

stuff, it becomes a little too much.

411

: 00:20:13

So what I've been really focusing

on over the last several months is

412

: 00:20:17

trying to like consolidate everything

into like one location or concise

413

: 00:20:22

everything into like one avenue

that a loan officer or a referral

414

: 00:20:26

partner can take advantage of, right?

415

: 00:20:28

So, we try to take the lead

on that compliance side.

416

: 00:20:31

Like, "Hey, idiot, don't upload

a client's tax return," right?

417

: 00:20:34

When you're looking to do that, right?

418

: 00:20:36

There's platforms like yours

that can help automate that.

419

: 00:20:39

That comes on an enterprise corporate

perspective that we'll get there, but…

420

: 00:20:44

Or just be smart and just snip

the part that doesn't have any

421

: 00:20:47

identifying consumer information,

like a Schedule E, for example.

422

: 00:20:51

We've just made like a Schedule E

project calculator that you just

423

: 00:20:55

go from gross rent to net income.

424

: 00:20:58

That's got no client

self-identifying information.

425

: 00:21:01

Snip it for now, right?

426

: 00:21:04

And then eventually when there

is an enterprise solution or an

427

: 00:21:07

LLM that's incorporated within

corporate, you can, but for now,

428

: 00:21:11

just be smart about it, right?

429

: 00:21:12

You just wanna know, "I wanna be, lazy,

but I wanna get the answers of the

430

: 00:21:17

Schedule E calculations like this."

431

: 00:21:19

You don't care…

432

: 00:21:20

And maybe keep an eye on like how

many days it was rented, right?

433

: 00:21:23

But, you know, just, just snip that

gross rent to net income instead of

434

: 00:21:27

going, you know, rental minus this,

plus depreciation, plus this, plus that.

435

: 00:21:32

It could do it for you in seconds, right?

436

: 00:21:34

And then you're gonna get

your answers right away.

437

: 00:21:36

And generally, it's the processors that

are obviously doing that for our loan

438

: 00:21:39

officers, so they're trained on that.

439

: 00:21:41

letters of explanation, obviously,

they're trained on, you know, coordinating

440

: 00:21:45

with the consumers and making it nice

and pretty and sounding nice and cool.

441

: 00:21:49

we have a client right now-

non-QM loan to that point, right?

442

: 00:21:53

It's a non-QM loan.

443

: 00:21:54

they closed the business.

444

: 00:21:55

It was called-- I won't say the

name, but call it, like, ABC

445

: 00:21:59

Construction, and then now they're

heavily focused on, restoration.

446

: 00:22:03

So they closed ABC Construction and

then basically started ABC Restoration.

447

: 00:22:07

It's literally the exact same business.

448

: 00:22:10

But of course, like many, say it,

you know, nicely, but let's call

449

: 00:22:15

it blue-collar construction guys.

450

: 00:22:18

The restoration company is still using the

OG construction company's bank account.

451

: 00:22:23

So it's always like, ugh.

452

: 00:22:25

We just get a CPA, right?

453

: 00:22:27

Get a CPA to basically state that

it's essentially the same business.

454

: 00:22:30

He's filed essentially

the same, the same things.

455

: 00:22:32

There's, there's no difference in there.

456

: 00:22:33

It was incorporated, you

know, ten years later.

457

: 00:22:36

and they've just never had a need to close

the business bank account, and we did.

458

: 00:22:40

You know, gave them essentially what the

verbiage was, communicated with the CPA.

459

: 00:22:44

CPA was a little older, and I'm like,

"Hey, this is essentially what we need.

460

: 00:22:46

Please get that to us on a letter."

461

: 00:22:48

Now, I had to, like, go back and

forth with myself through this

462

: 00:22:50

AI agent, like, a couple times.

463

: 00:22:51

I'm like, "This idiot's not understanding

what I'm asking for," right?

464

: 00:22:55

so, you know, kind of having

that, I think, has allowed us.

465

: 00:22:57

But compliance is always the route before

I think, 'cause of my background, you

466

: 00:23:01

know, skipping law school and then getting

into this was my first focal point, right?

467

: 00:23:06

texting another loan officer, right?

468

: 00:23:07

There's a lot of mortgage fraud

going on right now, like occupancy

469

: 00:23:09

fraud and stuff like that.

470

: 00:23:10

So I'm like, "Dude, your hundred basis

points, two hundred and seventy-five

471

: 00:23:14

basis points, whatever you're gonna

make on a deal, dude, because right

472

: 00:23:17

now, as the market kind of constricts,

you gotta be careful with that stuff."

473

: 00:23:20

Because, you know, usually when it

was COVID, everybody kind of got

474

: 00:23:23

away with it because you're so busy.

475

: 00:23:24

I'm like, "You guys gotta be careful."

476

: 00:23:25

Like, never do something for a deal that

you have that opportunity to basically

477

: 00:23:29

come back and bite you in the butt.

478

: 00:23:31

Even if it closes, you know, you've

got thir-thirty years of it basically

479

: 00:23:35

hanging, you know, with you not

being able to close both your eyes

480

: 00:23:37

So yeah.

481

: 00:23:38

Reuven: Abdel, how do

you, how do you think…

482

: 00:23:40

You mentioned you've got,

you've got a huge pipeline.

483

: 00:23:42

Sounds like you've got a huge

pipeline of these ideas and projects

484

: 00:23:46

and, and obviously, you know, I,

I, as they say, ideas are cheap,

485

: 00:23:50

execution trumps everything.

486

: 00:23:53

So how, how do you go about getting

your team to adopt these things?

487

: 00:23:57

and what sort of pushback are you getting?

488

: 00:23:59

What's, what's the typical process that

you see taking it from, you know, say a

489

: 00:24:04

napkin on a Sunday afternoon, right into

production within, within your own team?

490

: 00:24:09

Because you've got a pretty,

pretty large outfit to run.

491

: 00:24:11

Abdel Khawatmi: Yeah I'm a, I'm a

very big execution maniac, right?

492

: 00:24:16

l-like, for me, if there's an idea,

like I, I, I, like, won't sleep

493

: 00:24:19

until it's, like, set in tone and

there's an action plan together

494

: 00:24:22

and I wanna actually get it done.

495

: 00:24:24

I think adoption for team, you

know, I've, I've said this a

496

: 00:24:26

couple times, but there's…

497

: 00:24:28

I always talk to my loan

officers and teammates, right?

498

: 00:24:30

There's three freedoms that we want in

life: financial, time, and relationship,

499

: 00:24:34

and I think AI is gonna give you the

opportunity to adopt all three, right?

500

: 00:24:38

Financial is, you know, if you're a

leader out there, you're gonna have

501

: 00:24:42

the opportunity to, you know, diminish

staff and automate some of the workflow.

502

: 00:24:46

It's unfortunate, but hey, that's why

unemployment right now just went down

503

: 00:24:50

23,000 jobs with the BLS report for

the first time in, in, in a long time,

504

: 00:24:55

even with fictitious numbers, right?

505

: 00:24:57

so you gotta take lead on that, right?

506

: 00:24:59

and then I share with my loan officers,

we're able to have very, very, very tight

507

: 00:25:03

margins because we operate so efficiently.

508

: 00:25:06

So, if you want that extra hand in the

cookie jar to help you move a file from

509

: 00:25:11

A to Z, right, then you're either gonna

have to take a compensation cut or you're

510

: 00:25:16

going to have to, you're gonna have

to open up another branch and you're

511

: 00:25:18

gonna have to sell higher margins.

512

: 00:25:19

And I know I can't do that, right?

513

: 00:25:20

So therefore, you need

to adopt this, right?

514

: 00:25:23

And then we'll also show them paychecks,

and we're like, "Hey, look, this is

515

: 00:25:25

a paycheck for the last two weeks as

an originator, not a fancy, you know,

516

: 00:25:29

title that I have as an area manager.

517

: 00:25:31

This is what I made," AI being

a forefront of that, but also me

518

: 00:25:34

having the communication, right?

519

: 00:25:36

then it's relationship, right?

520

: 00:25:38

I've never been cooler and tighter

and you could tell my personality.

521

: 00:25:42

It's very, like, "Yo, what's up, dude?"

522

: 00:25:43

Like, "What do we have to do?

523

: 00:25:44

Where are you at in your business?

524

: 00:25:45

Let's jump on Zoom.

525

: 00:25:46

Let's, let's meet."

526

: 00:25:47

Like, after the open house yesterday,

me and the realtor went, grabbed a quick

527

: 00:25:50

bite, and then went and grabbed a couple

stogies and we were just smoking, and

528

: 00:25:54

just talking but your relationship,

like, is it going to be tight?

529

: 00:25:58

Do you have your go-to referral partners?

530

: 00:25:59

Do you know who your go-to

referral partners are?

531

: 00:26:02

Are you going to be able to also audit

those referral partners to know if

532

: 00:26:05

they're cheating on you or not, right?

533

: 00:26:07

Like, do you have access again to Model

Match or Claude or Chat that's gonna

534

: 00:26:11

run that data for you and tell you if

they just closed with Mary Smith, loan

535

: 00:26:16

officer, who's another hypothetically IMB

or another broker, and they've not just

536

: 00:26:21

done one deal that was a one-off, they've

done three within the last two months.

537

: 00:26:26

You know, that's a little, that's

a little bit of a flag, right?

538

: 00:26:28

So, and then the last is time, right?

539

: 00:26:30

We've never been able to spend more time

with our kids, more time with our family,

540

: 00:26:34

more time with this because of not just

AI, 'cause I don't want it just to be

541

: 00:26:39

AI, but because of systems in place.

542

: 00:26:40

Like, when you can truly take a

step back and look at your business

543

: 00:26:43

and be like, "Okay, at what point,"

like I said, "am I involved?"

544

: 00:26:46

Like, for me, mortgage application

comes in, I've done my job.

545

: 00:26:50

All of my calls are recorded

with Plaid, so it's there.

546

: 00:26:53

We've built out that workflow.

547

: 00:26:55

So when a call comes in, but chances

are I'm not gonna get the recording

548

: 00:26:59

to the client and the agent, right?

549

: 00:27:00

We're just tied up, we're running around.

550

: 00:27:02

So I set it up with Zapier Where

it pulls the call, and then it

551

: 00:27:06

drops it into a Google Chat/Slack

channel, and then the team grabs it.

552

: 00:27:10

They grab it, and then they

basically send that recording.

553

: 00:27:13

It's already organized into how I

want it to come out with summary,

554

: 00:27:18

pain points, mortgage options, what's

expected from each person, and it's

555

: 00:27:22

broken down to realtor, client, lender.

556

: 00:27:26

and then it, it, it goes out there, right?

557

: 00:27:28

So that's a time-efficient, you

know, operation setup that I have.

558

: 00:27:33

again, I'm always getting coached

too, no matter how much, you

559

: 00:27:35

know, hundreds that we close is…

560

: 00:27:38

We also set up like a

little Claude project.

561

: 00:27:41

So in addition, because it zaps,

Claude will tell me how I did on

562

: 00:27:45

the call, and it's like a call

grading prompt that I build.

563

: 00:27:48

So it will tell me, "Hey,

you talked over this person.

564

: 00:27:51

Hey, you talk too much.

565

: 00:27:53

Hey, you should have done this.

566

: 00:27:54

Hey, you should have done that."

567

: 00:27:55

And listen, there's a-- there's so many

programs out there that do that stuff,

568

: 00:27:59

Nilo with Zillow and this and that.

569

: 00:28:01

I don't wanna go sign up for that

if I can just kind of build my own.

570

: 00:28:05

It's not gonna be 120% as perfect as

theirs, but it works within my workflow.

571

: 00:28:09

It records my Firefly calls on my

AI note-taker, and then it records

572

: 00:28:12

my Plaid calls, and my team knows.

573

: 00:28:14

And then now the LO see it.

574

: 00:28:17

So I'm like the perfect guinea

pig 'cause I'm doing it.

575

: 00:28:20

Like, if I say I'm gonna

adopt it, I'm doing it.

576

: 00:28:21

So then the LOs see it, and

they're like, wanna buy Plaid."

577

: 00:28:24

Like, "I wanna do that.

578

: 00:28:25

Oh, it's 200 bucks?"

579

: 00:28:27

Buddy, close $1 million,

Say, for the month.

580

: 00:28:30

Not a lot, and I'll buy it for you

581

: 00:28:32

Reuven: So yeah

582

: 00:28:33

Abdel Khawatmi: the second that they're

there, before their deal even funds,

583

: 00:28:36

it's already been mailed to their house.

584

: 00:28:37

'cause it's like, "H- show

me, show me the reward."

585

: 00:28:40

Like, we do a lot locally, right?

586

: 00:28:41

We're like chambers of commerces

and BNIs and this and that.

587

: 00:28:44

So I tell them, I'm like, "Do

you know which groups to join?"

588

: 00:28:47

Right?

589

: 00:28:47

"No, my prior branch manager,

you know, from another company

590

: 00:28:50

told me they were worth it."

591

: 00:28:51

So I'm like, "Dude, you could be found

online, but people still wanna see you,

592

: 00:28:56

they wanna, like, touch you, they wanna

know that you're a real human being,"

593

: 00:29:00

especially if you're taking that tech

side of things, they wanna make sure

594

: 00:29:03

that they could still talk to you.

595

: 00:29:04

They wanna make sure they still

have a conversation with you.

596

: 00:29:07

You might mesh or you might not.

597

: 00:29:08

Like, I just put a recording the

other day with Michelle Berman,

598

: 00:29:11

who wrote, "The Black Line,"

if you guys have ever met her.

599

: 00:29:13

she does a lot of, like, social media

and stuff like that, and I'm like,

600

: 00:29:16

"I know I'm not gonna mesh with every

realtor or every loan officer or

601

: 00:29:18

everything," and, and that's okay, right?

602

: 00:29:20

Because I'm not gonna, like-- d-

at one point, and I'm sure you

603

: 00:29:24

guys were like that too, right?

604

: 00:29:25

At one point you're like, "I'm talking

to this realtor or this, you know,

605

: 00:29:28

client or account, and I always have

to be cautious on how I speak," right?

606

: 00:29:34

Screw that, man.

607

: 00:29:35

Like, like, there's, there's more

than enough business being done.

608

: 00:29:37

I don't know what the

stat is, you know, $1.7

609

: 00:29:40

or $2 trillion of being out there.

610

: 00:29:43

I should be able to build out a

workflow around me and how I operate.

611

: 00:29:46

Now, if I'm not producing results, then

it's, "All right, dude, you know, "You

612

: 00:29:50

need to be coachable and understand

and tweak and do this and that."

613

: 00:29:53

But if I'm bringing the results and the

current partners that I have are with

614

: 00:29:56

me, my loan officers are with me, my

team is with me, why would I not just

615

: 00:29:59

keep building out around myself and how

I want things done, and then keep looking

616

: 00:30:03

to improve the efficiency from there?

617

: 00:30:05

Chris: it makes a lot of sense.

618

: 00:30:06

I think it's a great point.

619

: 00:30:07

Like, I mean, we, we've talked about

this too, and, you know, this, this

620

: 00:30:11

next phase, I, I, I really believe

it's, it's almost gonna revert back.

621

: 00:30:15

Like when I was brokering, you know,

first 20 years of my mortgage career,

622

: 00:30:21

so much of the, the first phase of it

anyway, so much of it was in person.

623

: 00:30:25

Like you, you wouldn't do a deal that

wasn't at someone's kitchen table.

624

: 00:30:28

And then we migrated to this world where,

know, maybe they came into our office,

625

: 00:30:34

and then we went to a world where they

didn't come into our office at all.

626

: 00:30:37

And, you know, I think with where we are,

it's, it's going to pivot back to that.

627

: 00:30:42

And, you know, you, you…

628

: 00:30:43

maybe one, one or two more questions, but,

know, you, you talked about this and, and

629

: 00:30:48

I put myself in that sort of LO or branch

manager's chair, and I sit in there and

630

: 00:30:52

saying, "This guy's doing all this really

cool stuff, but man, I, I don't get it.

631

: 00:30:58

I don't even know how to-- I

barely know how to use my computer.

632

: 00:31:02

I know my cell phone in and out, right?

633

: 00:31:04

I, I, I can, I can push the deals through.

634

: 00:31:07

I, I, I know my, my ingestion sort

of submission platform through

635

: 00:31:11

and through, but the rest, it's

all, it's, it's all crazy to me."

636

: 00:31:15

Like how do you help these guys

get over that fear factor, like

637

: 00:31:18

even these things you're doing?

638

: 00:31:21

Besides the fact that, you

know, I see Abdel here, he's

639

: 00:31:24

doing some really cool stuff.

640

: 00:31:25

Like how, how do I, how do

you get over that bridge?

641

: 00:31:29

Abdel Khawatmi: Yeah,

so it's a great point.

642

: 00:31:31

So think, I think every person's,

Really entire business model

643

: 00:31:35

needs to be shaped to them, right?

644

: 00:31:37

So whether you're new into business

or seasoned into business, but

645

: 00:31:41

there's nobody, I'm a firm believer,

on God's green earth that could tell

646

: 00:31:45

me that you can't utilize technology

in one way or another, right?

647

: 00:31:49

Whether it's, MBS Highway and Mortgage

Coach, or whether it's, you know, Model

648

: 00:31:53

Match and home reports and list reports

or artificial intelligence, right?

649

: 00:31:57

you can't physically tell me

you're getting back to every single

650

: 00:32:00

consumer like 100% clockwork.

651

: 00:32:04

if you are and you're watching

this, call me and teach me.

652

: 00:32:06

I will be a student and

learn how you do it, right?

653

: 00:32:10

I will do, do it because I have

checkpoints in place because of

654

: 00:32:14

AI reminding me, because of having

admins reminding me, a calendar

655

: 00:32:18

time block like I shared earlier.

656

: 00:32:20

So you kinda get a little bit, in there.

657

: 00:32:22

But how nim-how many of us, right,

almost like 30% of my business

658

: 00:32:25

this year is non-QM, right?

659

: 00:32:27

if you asked me like three years ago

about non-QM, I'd be like, "What is that?"

660

: 00:32:30

Right?

661

: 00:32:31

j-it sh- maybe like DSCR, right?

662

: 00:32:33

But now, like this client, that business

owner example I was sharing about the

663

: 00:32:37

business names and stuff like that,

construction and restoration, he's

664

: 00:32:40

doing a bank statement loan, right?

665

: 00:32:41

two institutional banks

told him, "You got…

666

: 00:32:44

You don't have a heartbeat," right?

667

: 00:32:45

It was like 32 grand in net, K-one income.

668

: 00:32:47

it was like a prime slam

dunk for bank statement loan.

669

: 00:32:51

Decent rate too, seven

and a quarter, right?

670

: 00:32:53

which is, which is pretty solid, not that

far away, honestly, from just regular

671

: 00:32:57

conventional with LLPA hits right now.

672

: 00:33:00

but how many of us are sitting

there if you're doing non-QM you're

673

: 00:33:03

like, you've got several investors.

674

: 00:33:06

Like Chris, you s- you mentioned that

you, you were in the broker channel,

675

: 00:33:08

so you've got several investors.

676

: 00:33:09

You're like, "Who's good?"

677

: 00:33:10

And yes, you could use Arrive, and

yes, you could use this or that.

678

: 00:33:12

But just h-having educated

convos with consumers, you might

679

: 00:33:17

need a little bit of guidance.

680

: 00:33:18

And then you're going on Google,

and you're like, "What's the

681

: 00:33:20

minimum down payment on this?"

682

: 00:33:21

Or you're going into maybe

a resource center that your

683

: 00:33:23

brokerage put together and it's…

684

: 00:33:25

Or you build it around you, right?

685

: 00:33:27

And whether it's an internal AI

platform or whatever, and you build

686

: 00:33:30

that and you use that for guidelines.

687

: 00:33:32

Whether you're seasoned for five seconds

or 50 years, you're going to be able

688

: 00:33:36

to take advantage of that, right?

689

: 00:33:37

one glimpse of it being able to do.

690

: 00:33:40

We've got some really cool, like, AI

agentic agents that we just started

691

: 00:33:43

role-playing to do, consumer engagement.

692

: 00:33:46

So it's, post-contract, pre-contract,

consumer direct lead, referral partner

693

: 00:33:52

lead, and loan officers, right?

694

: 00:33:54

So that's been-- I was always kinda like

hesitant on jumping into that, but now

695

: 00:33:58

I'm using it where, like, I just want

you to do the cold touch to the warm

696

: 00:34:02

touch, as I call it, and then let me take

the warm touch to the hot touch, right?

697

: 00:34:06

Where let me kind of root out

the person and understand where

698

: 00:34:10

they're at in their business.

699

: 00:34:11

Amongst, we talked earlier

about compliance, TCPA laws.

700

: 00:34:14

I'm not trying to get smacked with a fine.

701

: 00:34:16

And we're scrubbing the Do Not Call

list, and we're scrubbing certain

702

: 00:34:18

avenues and things like that.

703

: 00:34:20

But, loan officers, if you're telling

me right now that if I gave you 1,500

704

: 00:34:24

consumer direct leads that were generated

off of Facebook, and they're not seasoned.

705

: 00:34:28

They're, they're-- I just

got them like a month ago.

706

: 00:34:30

You're gonna get to every single

one by the end of the week?

707

: 00:34:34

just, just physically impossible.

708

: 00:34:36

and maybe you are.

709

: 00:34:37

Maybe you're, you're trained as

that call center style loan officer

710

: 00:34:40

with dialers and stuff like that.

711

: 00:34:42

But you could be doing a little bit

more belly-to-belly convos while that

712

: 00:34:46

authentic agent is bringing you that

cold touch to warm touch, booking stuff

713

: 00:34:50

in your calendar, getting you, you know,

to be top of mind with that consumer,

714

: 00:34:55

would you have more success that way?

715

: 00:34:57

I really think it's-- And I

think I might've said this, but,

716

: 00:35:00

'cause I say this a lot, right?

717

: 00:35:01

I break down the business into,

like, sales, service, support.

718

: 00:35:04

And then from those avenues, we, we--

when we sit down with an originator,

719

: 00:35:08

we sit down with a referral partner,

it's, where's your business coming from?

720

: 00:35:11

If you're an agent, are you buyers?

721

: 00:35:12

Is it sellers?

722

: 00:35:13

Okay, are you getting back to every single

FSBO, every expired, whatever stuff you've

723

: 00:35:17

bought on Red X or old Zillow leads?

724

: 00:35:19

When's the last time you touched them?

725

: 00:35:21

X amount.

726

: 00:35:21

All right.

727

: 00:35:21

Well, I also have in-house

admins that have been with me for

728

: 00:35:24

six-plus years that are gonna call.

729

: 00:35:26

So you're gonna do a little bit

more guerrilla-style, right?

730

: 00:35:29

But you're also gonna have a little

bit of an AI agent that's gonna

731

: 00:35:32

be doing some of that automation

touchpoints and things like that.

732

: 00:35:35

No-- Like Drew said, right?

733

: 00:35:37

Don't deep fake yourself, right?

734

: 00:35:38

'Cause I, I've tried that.

735

: 00:35:40

I don't like it.

736

: 00:35:40

I, I messed around with, HeyGen.

737

: 00:35:43

Cool.

738

: 00:35:43

Great platform, guys, right?

739

: 00:35:44

But not me, right?

740

: 00:35:46

Not like-- Like, it didn't move like me.

741

: 00:35:48

It didn't talk like me.

742

: 00:35:49

It didn't move my hands.

743

: 00:35:50

Didn't, like, mesh.

744

: 00:35:51

So didn't really like it.

745

: 00:35:52

But all right, so you got your sales

side, then your service side, which we

746

: 00:35:55

always talk about, like the op side.

747

: 00:35:56

How efficient are you?

748

: 00:35:58

Is your processor feeling like she's

being inundated and not being able

749

: 00:36:01

to have advantage to some stuff

that, you know, other platforms have?

750

: 00:36:05

You gotta kinda build

it, not buy it, right?

751

: 00:36:08

And I said that too, right?

752

: 00:36:09

You can't buy this stuff.

753

: 00:36:11

sit back and dial in on your business

and find out, are you losing originators?

754

: 00:36:15

Like, are you not retaining

your loan officers?

755

: 00:36:18

That's a big part too, because they

might be getting sang a song and dance

756

: 00:36:22

on something that, you know, whether

it's comp or whether it's stuff.

757

: 00:36:25

And if it's comp, that means your

margins might be a little higher.

758

: 00:36:27

You might be at the wrong place

or whatever the case may be.

759

: 00:36:31

and then support social media, right?

760

: 00:36:33

Social media content.

761

: 00:36:34

Are you running podcasts?

762

: 00:36:36

Are you doing these kind of things,

you know, and things like that?

763

: 00:36:39

And if you don't, what are

you doing elsewhere, right?

764

: 00:36:42

Like, what-- Can you take that Lego piece

out and replace it with another Lego

765

: 00:36:46

piece, whether it's automation with Buffer

or Social Coach or something like that,

766

: 00:36:50

that's gonna help you get your content

out there while you, again, continue.

767

: 00:36:53

I'll keep going back to it, reverting

back to belly to face, you know, belly to

768

: 00:36:57

belly, face to face conversations with the

local community and the local partners.

769

: 00:37:01

Yeah.

770

: 00:37:01

Reuven: That's super interesting,

Val, and, and ultimately, you know,

771

: 00:37:05

we, we go to a lot of conferences.

772

: 00:37:07

I'm sure you do as well, and I'm

sure you're, you get inundated

773

: 00:37:10

by all these vendors, all these

companies that are selling AI.

774

: 00:37:14

And, Chris and I were just at a conference

the other week, and there's, you know,

775

: 00:37:17

15 of them go on, going on stage.

776

: 00:37:19

Everyone's doing their pitch.

777

: 00:37:21

And, you know, i- if you don't mind

going back to the, the whole build versus

778

: 00:37:25

buy, 'cause I'm sure, you know, there's,

there's a lot of great solutions out

779

: 00:37:28

there out of the box versus, you know,

you maybe tinkering on a weekend and

780

: 00:37:32

figuring it out with, with your team.

781

: 00:37:35

How do you sort of look at that when

you do get calls from the vendors?

782

: 00:37:38

And, and in, in general, what do you

think is the future of all of these

783

: 00:37:42

companies that are now entering the

mortgage space with a whole myriad of

784

: 00:37:46

solutions from sales to marketing, to

back office, operations, all that stuff?

785

: 00:37:53

Abdel Khawatmi: You gotta build it.

786

: 00:37:54

I will never buy a, a, like, platform,

one, that encumbrances everything,

787

: 00:37:59

'cause then I'm also like, got

the golden handcuffs to you too.

788

: 00:38:02

but I take calls.

789

: 00:38:03

I mean, don't get me wrong.

790

: 00:38:04

I take calls, I take conversations.

791

: 00:38:05

Frankly, you know, with my institution,

I'm the guinea pig for the stuff.

792

: 00:38:10

Like, I, I am, I am your typical

kid who you're throwing and

793

: 00:38:14

you're like, "Go pilot this."

794

: 00:38:15

And I'll grab it like,

"Nope, too complicated.

795

: 00:38:18

I'm good."

796

: 00:38:18

And if I think it's complicated,

forget about 99.999%

797

: 00:38:24

of our company, right?

798

: 00:38:26

and, and I'll have convos, and I'll

have some educated convos where

799

: 00:38:28

I'll give my honest feedback, right?

800

: 00:38:30

Like TE, you guys were there,

right, when Joe, when Joe and his

801

: 00:38:32

team were going over some stuff.

802

: 00:38:34

you know, I jumped on a call with them.

803

: 00:38:35

I mean, their stuff is pretty dope

because it's already integrated

804

: 00:38:38

within our Encompass, right?

805

: 00:38:40

So it kinda makes it easier, and

that's also the annoying part, right?

806

: 00:38:43

Where you gotta take your data if you're

doing stuff, and if it's not coordinated

807

: 00:38:47

with your enterprise, you gotta take it

out, you gotta do this, you gotta do that.

808

: 00:38:50

It's where you're, to Chris's

point, tiptoeing around the

809

: 00:38:53

gray area of compliance.

810

: 00:38:55

So they're, they're piloting like a

AI scenario agent, and it's kinda like

811

: 00:38:59

they're gonna have certain metrics on

refis and, you know, maybe not rate and

812

: 00:39:03

term But on like debt consolidation, where

they're gonna have some type of way where

813

: 00:39:08

they can get the data flow on debt of

like how clients are currently spending

814

: 00:39:13

credit and how clients are doing that.

815

: 00:39:15

Now, we do quarterly check-ins for

every client for the last eight years,

816

: 00:39:20

and it's a very quick, "Hey, dude."

817

: 00:39:22

and there's obviously AI built

in there 'cause it's pulling

818

: 00:39:24

the address, it's pulling this.

819

: 00:39:26

It's usually a little touch

point that I say, and it does it.

820

: 00:39:28

And then it pushes it to a Calendly

where they do a financial review.

821

: 00:39:32

They schedule it, we jump

on, we go all that stuff.

822

: 00:39:34

But I was missing that data piece.

823

: 00:39:37

Like, I don't have access

to that data of current…

824

: 00:39:39

Now, we have clients connect their,

bank accounts, with stuff like with

825

: 00:39:42

FinLocker or, you know, where they

could track their credit and things

826

: 00:39:46

like that, but it was never that.

827

: 00:39:48

But what I really liked it was

it was, it was like, "All right."

828

: 00:39:50

He's like, "All right, so we're gonna

do these reports, and then we're

829

: 00:39:52

gonna send it to you, and then you

can check it before firing it out."

830

: 00:39:54

And I'm like…

831

: 00:39:55

He's like, "Or we could just send it out."

832

: 00:39:56

I'm like, "Send it out."

833

: 00:39:58

He's, "Yeah, but what if the rate's off?"

834

: 00:39:59

I'm like, "Who cares?"

835

: 00:40:00

I-- When clients ask me what's the

rate, I literally say, "I have no idea.

836

: 00:40:04

Today it could be six and a half.

837

: 00:40:06

Tomorrow we can get a tweet at night

and it could be seven, or we can get

838

: 00:40:09

a tweet at night and it could be six."

839

: 00:40:12

And I always make it a joke and I'm

like, "And it sucks 'cause it's at night,

840

: 00:40:15

so there's nothing I can do," right?

841

: 00:40:17

And you, you know, the convos happen,

but to that point, again, it's yes,

842

: 00:40:21

I'll entertain conversations and stuff,

but my first, my first inclination is

843

: 00:40:26

I don't need another tech stack, right?

844

: 00:40:28

We-- I'm constantly cutting actually.

845

: 00:40:31

Like, I was using Gamma

for a while, right?

846

: 00:40:34

I'm sure most of us may have heard

of Gamma, like the PowerPoint

847

: 00:40:36

presentation deck and whatever.

848

: 00:40:38

And then I finally cut it like

three months ago, which was like

849

: 00:40:41

a big thing 'cause it was like

the coolest thing in the world.

850

: 00:40:44

But we've identified kind of

like a consistent brand style

851

: 00:40:47

that I like my stuff to come out.

852

: 00:40:49

It's like this little dark black

background, red letters, white

853

: 00:40:52

letters, and stuff like that.

854

: 00:40:54

And I just have a Claude project,

so now whenever we have something

855

: 00:40:57

in place, we just drop it in there

and it just does it, and now I

856

: 00:40:59

just save 30 bucks a month, right?

857

: 00:41:01

and it's again in one centralized

location, so I don't have to sit

858

: 00:41:04

there and the admins have to train

our new hires on a new platform,

859

: 00:41:07

on a new this, on a new that.

860

: 00:41:09

but it works within our flow, right?

861

: 00:41:11

Now, I will be occasionally like

inclined to want to get into something,

862

: 00:41:16

but I am usually working on, don't

need this first and kinda like sorta

863

: 00:41:21

convince me on it, rather than when

we first got into this, frankly, it

864

: 00:41:25

was like the kid in the candy store.

865

: 00:41:27

We're like, "Yes, I want this.

866

: 00:41:28

Yes, I want this.

867

: 00:41:28

Yes, I want this.

868

: 00:41:29

Yes, I want this."

869

: 00:41:31

your revenue manager's like, "Why

the hell are we paying X amount?"

870

: 00:41:33

And I'm like, "I don't know, dude.

871

: 00:41:35

I just, I think it works."

872

: 00:41:36

so I, and I think when Chris was saying

earlier, I think that's, people are being

873

: 00:41:40

a little bit more skeptical too now.

874

: 00:41:42

It's like, is this gonna actually

work or are you singing me a little

875

: 00:41:45

bit of a song and dance, right?

876

: 00:41:47

and that's definitely been

a little bit of my approach.

877

: 00:41:49

But I'll never turn down a meeting

'cause I think I enjoy learning what's

878

: 00:41:52

out there 'cause it also keeps me in

check to be like, oh, I thought I had

879

: 00:41:55

the greatest thing in the world, but

apparently I'm a little backed up.

880

: 00:41:59

I need to be pivoting a little bit

faster on this or that, and then frankly

881

: 00:42:02

I'll try to copy it, it within my

workflow, or be like, you know what?

882

: 00:42:07

This is gonna take way too much time.

883

: 00:42:09

I don't have access to eight

engineers and developers, so I might

884

: 00:42:13

as well just actually compensate

the ones that have done the hard

885

: 00:42:16

part of putting that stuff together

886

: 00:42:18

Chris: Maybe, one last question.

887

: 00:42:19

You know, and I, I've done a few of these

podcasts where people always ask me,

888

: 00:42:23

"Where do you see this in five years?"

889

: 00:42:25

And I think that's an irrelevant question

because we're moving way too fast.

890

: 00:42:28

I think even last week we heard

it on stage a couple times at that

891

: 00:42:30

second conference that, you know.

892

: 00:42:33

But where do you see…

893

: 00:42:34

Excuse me.

894

: 00:42:36

Where do you see this, like,

this industry in six months?

895

: 00:42:41

Abdel Khawatmi: Dude,

I have no idea, right?

896

: 00:42:42

When, when Zeb-- We're, we, we

role played a couple times right

897

: 00:42:45

before the meeting, and he's like:

"What's gonna happen in 12 months?"

898

: 00:42:47

And I think if you guys remember,

I said, I'm like: "Twelve months?

899

: 00:42:49

I-- Ask me in 12 seconds,

'cause I have no idea."

900

: 00:42:53

I think it's, it's, you're, you're already

seeing, jobs, obviously diminish, right?

901

: 00:42:59

You're, you're-- The biggest

part right now is the cost

902

: 00:43:02

to manufacture a loan, right?

903

: 00:43:03

How cheap can we make it, right?

904

: 00:43:05

Can we-- I think the average

cost now, I'm sure it varies per

905

: 00:43:08

institution, but I think it's like

12 grand, maybe like 11 five, right?

906

: 00:43:12

Whatever, whatever the math is.

907

: 00:43:14

I think that's the root cause because

margin compression is still a real thing.

908

: 00:43:18

So, you know, I used to love making

four points, four and a half points on

909

: 00:43:21

a deal, you know, from four to N branch.

910

: 00:43:24

Now I'm lucky if I can get away

with two and a half, you know, maybe

911

: 00:43:28

three, you know, on a govie, right?

912

: 00:43:30

'Cause it's just so competitive out there.

913

: 00:43:32

and I don't lose deals to rates.

914

: 00:43:34

By the time we've spent so much time

and energy with you, with the consumer,

915

: 00:43:38

with the referral partner, like you're

gonna know that I'm not some jackass

916

: 00:43:42

who wants to sell you a high rate.

917

: 00:43:43

Like I actually care.

918

: 00:43:44

There's an advisory position.

919

: 00:43:46

We're talking about tax

strategies and stuff.

920

: 00:43:48

But Chris, I have no idea, to be honest.

921

: 00:43:50

I think what, what, what I will

say this though, and you might take

922

: 00:43:53

this, you might understand this too.

923

: 00:43:55

I'm definitely seeing other uber

successful title companies start

924

: 00:44:00

to pivot their approach trying

to like do everything, right?

925

: 00:44:07

If that makes sense, right?

926

: 00:44:08

Where, where, the company I mentioned

before, right, where they were very

927

: 00:44:11

big in one avenue, and now they're

doing a lot of the AI stuff, right?

928

: 00:44:14

I think that is what I'm definitely

seeing, 'cause they've realized like,

929

: 00:44:17

there's, there's people are adopting this.

930

: 00:44:20

They're asking for this.

931

: 00:44:21

If they're not going to do it,

they're gonna go and try to

932

: 00:44:23

bring it themselves," right?

933

: 00:44:25

They're gonna try to go and do it

themselves, and they might lose

934

: 00:44:27

potential contracts and enterprise,

you know, solutions and stuff.

935

: 00:44:31

I think that is where the industry is

shifting, where everybody's gonna try

936

: 00:44:35

to consolidate all of your checkpoints.

937

: 00:44:37

Where, yes, you could run pricing, you

could get an AI agent, you could do this,

938

: 00:44:41

you could do this, you could do that,

and it's all gonna be housed under one

939

: 00:44:44

place Again, I mentioned earlier, I'm

not a fan of that sometimes 'cause I also

940

: 00:44:49

don't wanna be, like, to that platform.

941

: 00:44:52

But I will certainly embrace, like I

mentioned with Claude, it's doing--

942

: 00:44:56

And I use both Claude and Chat.

943

: 00:44:58

and I use it, one, for two

different things: Chat more from the

944

: 00:45:01

operational efficiencies perspective.

945

: 00:45:03

Claude is really better at the videos

and the graphics and the marketing side.

946

: 00:45:07

That's just kind of what I've seen.

947

: 00:45:08

but it's weird, like sometimes

Chat's better at pictures because

948

: 00:45:11

they've got Nano Banana than Claude.

949

: 00:45:13

So you kinda play around with it.

950

: 00:45:15

but I think, the people who

don't embrace it, you're screwed.

951

: 00:45:19

Like, just, just beat it now, right?

952

: 00:45:21

the, the loan officers that have been,

really doing things for quite some time,

953

: 00:45:25

you're at a huge disadvantage, right?

954

: 00:45:27

Or you're just gonna continue

paying the referral partner's

955

: 00:45:31

Zillow bill because that's as much

as you, bring value to the table.

956

: 00:45:37

And if you're not getting back to that

consumer, you're gonna get chopped.

957

: 00:45:40

get that all the time.

958

: 00:45:41

We meet with new referral partners,

and I know 'cause I go on Zillow, and I

959

: 00:45:44

see right under their profile, Premier

Lender, and it's gonna be a specific

960

: 00:45:48

lender, and it's some person that you

could tell they worked with for quite some

961

: 00:45:51

time 'cause Model Match tells me that.

962

: 00:45:53

and I ask them immediately, "What

is this person bringing to you

963

: 00:45:57

besides paying for your Zillow?"

964

: 00:45:59

"Well, how'd you know?"

965

: 00:46:00

Well, because it's-- Zillow tells me

that they're a premier lender, and

966

: 00:46:03

they didn't get it on there on free.

967

: 00:46:04

They're paying your ad spend.

968

: 00:46:06

and unless you're bringing so much

value to a referral partner, and I

969

: 00:46:10

think that's where AI really helps you

identify what is that value offering.

970

: 00:46:15

Like, before we go to a meeting,

I already know about you.

971

: 00:46:18

I know earlier, like, I joked, like,

if you're a Cowboys fan or a Giants

972

: 00:46:21

fan, I know if you have dogs, I know

if you like wine, I know if you like

973

: 00:46:24

that before I even go to meet with you.

974

: 00:46:26

So before we talk about work, I'm gonna

talk about, like, the FROG or FORD,

975

: 00:46:30

however you wanna call the acronym, right?

976

: 00:46:31

I'm gonna talk about your

family, your rec-recreation,

977

: 00:46:34

your occupation, and your goals.

978

: 00:46:35

So when the team goes and runs a

brand audit on you, I know what

979

: 00:46:38

you're doing well, what you're not.

980

: 00:46:40

I also know that you have kids

or don't, or now you just…

981

: 00:46:42

Like, some of our friends are dropping

their kids off at college, so now

982

: 00:46:45

we're gonna relate to that 'cause

I just dropped my-- well, took my

983

: 00:46:49

daughter for a high school orientation.

984

: 00:46:51

So we're gonna talk about that first.

985

: 00:46:52

So I'm being a little bit more

tactical, leveraging the data, and

986

: 00:46:56

then having real, honest, authentic

conversations without it being like,

987

: 00:47:00

"You're a realtor, I'm a loan officer,

let's start working with each other."

988

: 00:47:02

Right?

989

: 00:47:03

And we train our loan officers to that

point, and I sometimes make it so easy

990

: 00:47:07

where I'm like, "Dude, just tell the

admin team who you're meeting with,

991

: 00:47:10

and they're connected to your calendar,

and they're gonna create a full-blown

992

: 00:47:13

checklist for you with a summary that

it's literally, like, easy for you to

993

: 00:47:18

just show up, and you're gonna have

checklists on to, like, family, divorced,

994

: 00:47:22

right, this, that, this, that, and then

you can have more actionable steps."

995

: 00:47:26

And that's my job as a leader is

I don't want you guys to go and

996

: 00:47:29

figure this out and play around

with this and play around with that.

997

: 00:47:32

me do it, and I have the discipline

to time block it to make sure I'm

998

: 00:47:36

still getting back to my clients.

999

: 00:47:37

I make sure I'm still doing this,

I'm still doing that, and I'll give

: 1000

00:47:40,202 --> 00:47:42,122

you guys as much actionable steps.

: 1001

00:47:42,132 --> 00:47:43,092

Step one, do this.

: 1002

00:47:43,102 --> 00:47:43,852

Step two, do this.

: 1003

00:47:43,862 --> 00:47:45,332

Step three, you did that.

: 1004

00:47:45,342 --> 00:47:46,442

No, smack on the wrist.

: 1005

00:47:46,442 --> 00:47:50,422

Go back to step two because you skipped

how to do a soft credit authorization.

: 1006

00:47:50,922 --> 00:47:55,982

We've been charging soft credit the last

three years upfront to the consumer, and

: 1007

00:47:55,982 --> 00:47:58,092

I've never gotten one complaint, right?

: 1008

00:47:58,132 --> 00:48:01,552

And that client, coincidentally,

who would complain, have a five

: 1009

00:48:01,552 --> 00:48:02,442

hundred credit score, right?

: 1010

00:48:02,442 --> 00:48:05,072

But the point of, like, we're

loan officers who we brought on,

: 1011

00:48:05,072 --> 00:48:07,112

they're like, "I can't believe

you're charging for soft credit."

: 1012

00:48:07,112 --> 00:48:10,682

Now it's a common thing that

you do, but back then it wasn't.

: 1013

00:48:10,712 --> 00:48:14,672

But it certainly saved me on

revenue, which allowed us to keep the

: 1014

00:48:14,672 --> 00:48:16,762

margins tight and ultimately do it.

: 1015

00:48:16,772 --> 00:48:22,292

So, it's a, it's definitely an interesting

time to see how AI continues to evolve.

: 1016

00:48:23,162 --> 00:48:26,622

people are also missing the human

element intervention, right, which is

: 1017

00:48:26,622 --> 00:48:29,862

what we talked about, and I think that's

what we're continuing to strive on and

: 1018

00:48:29,862 --> 00:48:34,262

improve to make sure that we're not just

sending stuff automatically via emails

: 1019

00:48:34,262 --> 00:48:36,492

or text messages or AI automations.

: 1020

00:48:36,782 --> 00:48:39,002

We're picking up the phone and

having conversations, giving

: 1021

00:48:39,002 --> 00:48:39,894

them the best of both worlds.

: 1022

00:48:40,590 --> 00:48:42,840

Reuven: The last, last

question before we wrap up.

: 1023

00:48:42,860 --> 00:48:47,680

I mean, a- as, as you probably already

know, we're, we're probably in that 1%

: 1024

00:48:47,740 --> 00:48:52,390

in terms of, you know, listening to you

and how you're, using AI and how you've

: 1025

00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:56,360

put a lot of these, you know, both

production and experiments out there.

: 1026

00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,820

but I think there's, there's a whole,

whole bunch of industry studies.

: 1027

00:48:59,820 --> 00:49:05,420

There's one by TMC, that came out in

June of this year that said 83% of

: 1028

00:49:05,420 --> 00:49:10,590

the industry is now evaluating AI,

but I believe 13, 14% actually have

: 1029

00:49:10,610 --> 00:49:12,470

at least one thing in production.

: 1030

00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:15,830

So there's a whole host of folks out

there that are probably listening that

: 1031

00:49:15,830 --> 00:49:19,850

are saying, "Well, it's wonderful that

you're doing all this stuff," but if

: 1032

00:49:19,950 --> 00:49:23,980

tomorrow's Tuesday, and I wanna kind

of take a leap off the cliff here and

: 1033

00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:29,240

jump, you know, jump in headfirst,

what, what's your one recommendation to

: 1034

00:49:29,250 --> 00:49:31,960

anyone listening to just get in there?

: 1035

00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,160

Abdel Khawatmi: I mentioned this on stage.

: 1036

00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:35,920

The first thing is, if…

: 1037

00:49:35,950 --> 00:49:38,230

So essentially the question is like

what's the first thing you should

: 1038

00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:41,540

do tomorrow if you're looking to

truly adopt AI, basically, right?

: 1039

00:49:41,810 --> 00:49:43,900

and this is for mortgage professionals.

: 1040

00:49:43,930 --> 00:49:48,290

The first thing is find out what,

how, how commonly are you getting back

: 1041

00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:49,530

to your past client database, right?

: 1042

00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:51,480

'Cause that to an extent

is easily trackable.

: 1043

00:49:51,790 --> 00:49:53,380

what's your churn rate

on your refis, right?

: 1044

00:49:53,390 --> 00:49:54,500

Are you losing a lot of deals?

: 1045

00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:54,930

Are you not?

: 1046

00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:57,540

Maybe you're only a purchase

money-driven lender like myself, right?

: 1047

00:49:57,540 --> 00:50:00,080

I don't, I don't play for the

fight to the bottom unless it's a

: 1048

00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,930

cash out or a debt consolidation.

: 1049

00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,740

can I have something in place

to help me do that touchpoint

: 1050

00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:07,030

so I can bring in more business?

: 1051

00:50:07,150 --> 00:50:07,670

It's the first one.

: 1052

00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,590

The second one again is do you have

an internal tool built in to help

: 1053

00:50:11,590 --> 00:50:15,710

you with guidelines and help you with

answering questions or maybe doing

: 1054

00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:17,540

income calculations and stuff like that?

: 1055

00:50:17,850 --> 00:50:18,850

If you don't, that's another.

: 1056

00:50:19,010 --> 00:50:21,730

'Cause those in my opinion

are easily trackable, right?

: 1057

00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:24,920

When's the last time they changed the

minimum down payment on an FHA loan or

: 1058

00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,186

conventional loan They haven't, right?

: 1059

00:50:27,216 --> 00:50:30,476

Maybe a couple of FHA changes

on ADUs and stuff, but nothing

: 1060

00:50:30,476 --> 00:50:31,996

major or like two or three case.

: 1061

00:50:33,156 --> 00:50:37,276

and then after that is how-- what is

your social media presence, right?

: 1062

00:50:37,306 --> 00:50:41,856

Like, are you optimized on social

media, and can you help the team

: 1063

00:50:41,866 --> 00:50:45,736

schedule stuff on social media,

whether it's through Buffer, whether

: 1064

00:50:45,736 --> 00:50:47,176

it's through whatever AI platform.

: 1065

00:50:47,436 --> 00:50:51,416

And I'm not talking about cheesy

like pictures where you're doing

: 1066

00:50:51,416 --> 00:50:52,966

funny dances and this and that.

: 1067

00:50:53,016 --> 00:50:54,876

I actually, I'm, I'm not a fan of those.

: 1068

00:50:54,926 --> 00:50:58,876

the occasional drop it as a joke,

but not really a fan of those.

: 1069

00:50:59,086 --> 00:51:01,886

I did one yesterday with like-- with

sitting down with my twenty-year-old

: 1070

00:51:01,886 --> 00:51:04,496

self, and it was pretty funny 'cause I

looked like I was like two years old.

: 1071

00:51:04,856 --> 00:51:07,326

but I think it's, I

think it's that, right?

: 1072

00:51:07,356 --> 00:51:08,196

We're, we're…

: 1073

00:51:08,326 --> 00:51:09,886

What is the easiest thing for you?

: 1074

00:51:09,886 --> 00:51:12,536

'Cause the answer too is different

'cause every person operates

: 1075

00:51:12,536 --> 00:51:13,946

their business differently, right?

: 1076

00:51:13,966 --> 00:51:17,296

But, and then I said it earlier, what's

the cost to manufacture a loan, right?

: 1077

00:51:17,676 --> 00:51:21,476

And what are the things in place that

you can help to remove it, right?

: 1078

00:51:21,486 --> 00:51:23,716

Like, can you-- Maybe

you have a processor.

: 1079

00:51:24,016 --> 00:51:25,176

You're gonna need a processor.

: 1080

00:51:25,466 --> 00:51:26,086

Do you need an LOA?

: 1081

00:51:27,146 --> 00:51:27,416

Right.

: 1082

00:51:27,536 --> 00:51:28,686

Probably not, right?

: 1083

00:51:28,786 --> 00:51:32,446

And then that can save you whatever the

cost of a, you know, attri- you know,

: 1084

00:51:32,476 --> 00:51:34,956

attribution is to that particular loan.

: 1085

00:51:35,386 --> 00:51:37,456

do you need a, post-closing department?

: 1086

00:51:37,456 --> 00:51:37,876

Sure.

: 1087

00:51:37,916 --> 00:51:39,616

Do you need that mix in between?

: 1088

00:51:39,666 --> 00:51:40,356

Maybe not.

: 1089

00:51:40,686 --> 00:51:42,646

Maybe AI can help with that automation.

: 1090

00:51:42,676 --> 00:51:43,136

Great.

: 1091

00:51:43,416 --> 00:51:46,266

Can the underwriters work

more efficiently on speed?

: 1092

00:51:46,266 --> 00:51:50,776

So is there a plugin where it can

help assess their income and assess

: 1093

00:51:50,816 --> 00:51:55,866

that and maybe create-- eliminate that

lead of maybe a second level review?

: 1094

00:51:55,866 --> 00:51:59,256

Or if it's a jumbo loan, can you maybe

eliminate that second underwriter review

: 1095

00:51:59,296 --> 00:52:02,026

because that underwriter can grab another

deal and create, create more revenue?

: 1096

00:52:02,336 --> 00:52:04,536

That's kind of my from a

high level perspective.

: 1097

00:52:04,946 --> 00:52:09,156

From an originator, I said it earlier, is,

grab your calendar, where are you wasting

: 1098

00:52:09,156 --> 00:52:11,586

your time, out if you can automate it.

: 1099

00:52:11,586 --> 00:52:15,436

And if you can't, then you hire a virtual

assistant who could help you automate

: 1100

00:52:15,436 --> 00:52:19,276

it, and then you could train them on

AI, and they can help you identify more

: 1101

00:52:19,306 --> 00:52:22,876

areas where you could bring in more

potential revenue, find out what other

: 1102

00:52:22,876 --> 00:52:25,916

chambers of commerce is, what BNIs, what

stuff are out there, so you could be

: 1103

00:52:25,916 --> 00:52:30,546

there in person that follow through and

let some of the AI stuff do some of the

: 1104

00:52:30,546 --> 00:52:32,466

additional follow back for you, right?

: 1105

00:52:33,416 --> 00:52:36,236

if you become purposeful in that

flow, you don't have to do a

: 1106

00:52:36,246 --> 00:52:37,486

billion things like we're doing.

: 1107

00:52:37,506 --> 00:52:39,846

'Cause Lord knows I didn't

start doing a billion things.

: 1108

00:52:40,206 --> 00:52:43,396

but we started off at the first step, then

we move on to the next, and we move on

: 1109

00:52:43,396 --> 00:52:44,666

to the next, and we move on to the next.

: 1110

00:52:44,986 --> 00:52:48,456

Start with the first thing,

implement it, track the success rate.

: 1111

00:52:48,516 --> 00:52:51,286

If it's there, then move

on to the next thing.

: 1112

00:52:51,596 --> 00:52:53,786

Start it, implement it, execute it.

: 1113

00:52:53,796 --> 00:52:55,546

If it's there, move on to the next thing.

: 1114

00:52:55,956 --> 00:52:59,076

And the hard part too, by the way,

this is where I found out the hard

: 1115

00:52:59,076 --> 00:53:02,146

way, is you don't need a million

apps, like I said earlier, right?

: 1116

00:53:02,146 --> 00:53:04,216

You don't need a million things, like

I said earlier, 'cause then you're

: 1117

00:53:04,216 --> 00:53:06,146

gonna find yourself like, I need this.

: 1118

00:53:06,146 --> 00:53:06,686

I need this.

: 1119

00:53:06,686 --> 00:53:08,186

I need this," 'cause it's all within.

: 1120

00:53:08,606 --> 00:53:10,726

So when I took a step back

probably like four months ago,

: 1121

00:53:10,726 --> 00:53:12,186

and I'm like, "I don't need Gamma.

: 1122

00:53:12,926 --> 00:53:14,146

don't need this platform.

: 1123

00:53:14,146 --> 00:53:15,586

I don't need, say, StreamYard.

: 1124

00:53:15,586 --> 00:53:16,326

I don't need this.

: 1125

00:53:16,326 --> 00:53:17,036

I don't need that."

: 1126

00:53:17,036 --> 00:53:17,856

I can consolidate.

: 1127

00:53:17,856 --> 00:53:21,872

I can cut down On my AI

credits, can I build out?

: 1128

00:53:21,912 --> 00:53:24,532

we've got a project to help me reduce

the number of credits that we're

: 1129

00:53:24,532 --> 00:53:27,822

using if we're doing a big, a big

project because it becomes pricey.

: 1130

00:53:28,592 --> 00:53:30,642

I would say start from there

and then kind of take it

: 1131

00:53:31,935 --> 00:53:34,465

Reuven: That's awesome and, and

really sage advice for anyone.

: 1132

00:53:34,875 --> 00:53:38,545

Start small and, the, the other, you

know, the other thing that I find out,

: 1133

00:53:38,545 --> 00:53:43,055

I get at least two, three calls a week

to say, "How do I, how do I use AI?"

: 1134

00:53:43,465 --> 00:53:46,515

And, I think Adele, what you

said earlier really resonates

: 1135

00:53:46,525 --> 00:53:48,765

where it's not about AI at all.

: 1136

00:53:48,815 --> 00:53:52,275

It's just find, you know, find that

business opportunity, be yourself,

: 1137

00:53:52,295 --> 00:53:55,935

do, do something or pick something

that you're already good at and,

: 1138

00:53:55,935 --> 00:54:00,895

and amplify it 'cause this is truly

the, the hyperscaler for anyone, for

: 1139

00:54:00,895 --> 00:54:04,965

anything that you're doing well and,

and, and can, you know, do more of

: 1140

00:54:06,596 --> 00:54:06,926

Abdel Khawatmi: exactly

: 1141

00:54:08,581 --> 00:54:09,971

Chris: I think we'll,

wrap it up with that.

: 1142

00:54:10,181 --> 00:54:11,651

I really appreciate you joining us today.

: 1143

00:54:11,651 --> 00:54:14,561

It was a great conversation,

You're clearly always learning.

: 1144

00:54:14,601 --> 00:54:16,111

I'm always learning from

these conversations.

: 1145

00:54:16,111 --> 00:54:18,161

There's, there's always some

cool takeaways, so thank you

: 1146

00:54:19,594 --> 00:54:19,834

Abdel Khawatmi: Cool.

: 1147

00:54:20,141 --> 00:54:20,931

Reuven: I'm also happy, man.

: 1148

00:54:21,181 --> 00:54:21,751

Take care.

: 1149

00:54:21,881 --> 00:54:22,441

Have a great week.

: 1150

00:54:23,341 --> 00:54:23,601

Sure.

: 1151

00:54:23,824 --> 00:54:24,144

Abdel Khawatmi: You got it